Vee ([info]carnivee) wrote,
@ 2006-02-27 09:19:00
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Entry tags:politics, school

Feminist Theories: Hegemony As "Consensual"
In Gyn/Ecology, Mary Daly speaks to the idea of women being coerced into their own oppressive demise. She quotes Simone de Beauvior’s The Ethics of Ambiguity: “One of the ruses of oppression is to camouflage itself behind a natural situation since, after all, one cannot revolt against nature.” (56)

This brings to mind the idea of hegemony as “consensual” oppression. I swear I learned that as one definition, though Dictionary.com does not say that. Though it wouldn’t now, would it? It does, however, give the definition as a “predominant influence” of one group over another (whereas the Oxford University Press dictionary says only “dominance”). The idea of “influence” versus “dominance” indicates a slightly better definition, closer to the idea of “consensual” that I learned in Intro to Women’s Studies all those years ago, and so therefore I give props to Dictionary.com (well, the American Heritage Dictionary) over Oxford University Press (bloody Brits, who needs ‘em anyway).

This all reminds me of a time when, even more years ago, I attempted to gather together a group of my women friends to discuss and find ways to conquer one particular pet peeve of mine: objectification. (That’s an overly-broad term—I know now that I meant sexualized objectification [and/or perhaps object-ed sexualization] of women by the media, particularly the so-called “cookie cutter” “Hollywood whore.”) I was pretty uneducated about all of this—I knew I didn’t like it, but I didn’t have the language, this being long before my illustrious educational career at Antioch.

Many of the responses to my rallying were positive, agreeing with me that this indeed was an issue we needed to tackle. Many others, however, were not as supportive. Their main critique of my complaint was that women “do it to themselves”—the make-up, the hair, the clothes, the warped beauty standards. The women who said this were, I’d thought, relatively progressive (to my 19-year-old high-school drop-out awareness). They were older and I’d admired them, and now I was speechless. I once again didn’t have the language to retort: I knew there was something not quite right with their flippancy but I couldn’t quite get an English-language grasp on it. I gave up the project, regardless of the many positive responses, because my lack of education became salient.

Now, I do have the education and language (at least, more than I had before). I’ve got it enough, I know, to help others understand, others who normally wouldn’t. I keep thinking I should go back to these women, over 5 years later, and re-start the dialogue.

Lately, though, I have sort of given up the practice of attempting to “teach.” It got frustrating and when I get frustrated I lose the ability to communicate, and when I lose the ability to communicate I get frustrated. It’s a bad cycle. It is clearly an important pursuit; I have just left it up to others. This was both a conscious and unconscious decision, one I would like to work to change. Being at Antioch, it’s pretty easy to avoid these things—either they’re on the same page as you (more or less), or they’re already too sick of “Antioch” “politics” to want to hear anything else. But I’ll graduate in April, and head back out into the “real” world, where perhaps my muscle for attempting dialogue can be stretched and flexed.




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[info]daisydumont
2006-02-27 02:30 pm UTC (link)
i bought a used copy of Gyn/Ecology once upon a time but found daly unreadable. ok, i'm an undisciplined reader, have been for a long time. but it was tough going. even so, i strenuously dislike that objectification you're talking about, mostly because this culture has used it like a club to beat me into submission all my life. (when i'm thin, i'm pretty. when i'm fat, i don't deserve to live. like now! i'm depressed, despite my awareness that it's a stupid, killing standard, and it probably is meant to keep women preoccupied with appearances and too hungry to be powerful.)

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[info]carnivee
2006-03-01 02:07 pm UTC (link)
Daly is pretty unreadable. Hence my using her quoting of de Beauvior. Much more accessible. ;)

I recommend Marilyn Frye. She was there at the beginning for me, in Intro to Women's Studies, and I found her very accessible and helpful, and I still reference a lot of her ideas in my current studies and thinking.

The thing about the beauty standards and objectification is that they are so insidious- no one has escaped them. I thought I had, but it turned out they just affected me differently. (Another story entirely.) It sucks that it takes so much more than just awareness to change our habits, this internalization. In a way that makes it worse- "I know this is fucked up, I shouldn't be thinking this way!" Blargh!!

I completely agree with you on the "too hungry to be powerful" thing- the same way I think of high heels and tight/short skirts: so we can't run as fast!!

Well, hey, we should get some dialogue going and raise some consciousness, whadaya say, Miss (Other) Vee?? I'm curious as to your experiences as a young girl and woman- you witnessed 2nd-wave feminism ("women's lib")- for you personally, were things much different before and after this period?

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[info]daisydumont
2006-03-01 02:39 pm UTC (link)
>It sucks that it takes so much more than just awareness to change our habits, this internalization.

oh, for sure. i've been aware of this for years, but the critical voices in my head seem to be hard-wired there. :/

i'm not good at analytical dialogue. is second-wave de beauvoir, steinam, greer, and friedan? i know de beauvoir wrote before the others, but she's in the same general time zone. yeah, i was around then and remember talk on campus of consciousness raising and the experience of the "click," when suddenly realization of oppression would click into place almost audibly. i wasn't then, nor am i now, at all a political person, and i shy away from movements. but i read MS Magazine avidly in the early '70s and tried to keep up at least a little with the thinking and with societal changes.

i don't think the movement changed me much personally. i was the same bundle of contradictions and insecurities then as i am now, though time has helped me work through the problems somewhat. it's likely that many of my assumptions are taken from feminist thought, but in assimilated form. that's probably true of our culture at large: the theorists theorize, the militants militate, and it all eventually trickles down to people like me. ;)

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unpointed poorly thought out rambling
[info]spareme
2006-02-28 03:43 am UTC (link)
i've been thinking a lot recently about the sexualization of women/me. i don't know where this fits into the things that you've been thinking about, but i've been trying to figure out the qualitative differences between the ways that men and women are sexualized. when you look at magazines etc, it's obvious from the pictures you see that women wear less clothing then men, and are more blah blah etc sex. but when i hear people talking to each other, the objectifisexualalization seems to go both ways. women comment openly about the appearance of men, and it might even be more acceptable for women to say something like "like he's gonna get any wearing _that_ shirt" (not that i've actually heard anyone say that exactly...). anyway-- the way people act like they think now makes it seem like everyone's getting the short end of the objectification stick. but i don't think that's actually true, and i can't put my finger on why.

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Re: unpointed poorly thought out rambling
[info]carnivee
2006-03-01 02:13 pm UTC (link)
Hello there! Good to hear from you. :)

Objectification- in some forms or another- has definitely began to transcend sex/gender. I wonder about that. Part of me is like, "Good! Let them have some shit" but then I think it's no real way to make change, it's just reactionary, you know? Let's objectify everyone, that's equality! ;) (I like the term "the short end of the objectification stick", btw.)

I don't think this new wave of male objectification, however, is quite as evil as that we as women have experienced. First of all, it's new, and I would argue temporary, and not infused with millenia of sexist oppression. And, I don't know... that whole "he's not gonna get laid in that shirt", while perhaps true (hopefully- let's make 'em try a little harder to get in our pants, never a bad idea), I don't really see it being pervasive in every other aspect of men's lives as it is for ours. What do you think?

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Re: unpointed poorly thought out rambling
[info]carnivee
2006-03-01 02:15 pm UTC (link)
Basically, I am agreeing with you... Your unpointed poorly thought out ramblings are always welcome! I love being able to flex my critical thinking muscles, and you should join me in the work-out. (Hooray for lame metaphors.)

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Re: unpointed poorly thought out rambling
[info]spareme
2006-03-06 09:18 am UTC (link)
i wrote a reply to a few days ago (with an entirely different point from the one i now offer), and then my computer crashed. so i gave up. (until now... DUN DUN DUN!)

i think it had something to do with real versus imaginary worlds. the real world being the one in which the cigar is just a cigar, the real one also being the one where the cigar is entering a woman... etc. maybe not imaginary worlds, maybe just overly symbolized worlds. affected worlds where everything that is done to women or refers to women also refers to the patriarchy, and everything that is done to or refers to men is ignored if one takes sides with not the patriarchy. i don't think that the things which happen to men or the ideas with which people approach men are as harmful and retarded as with women. i also think that in gender-relevant* areas, that the things people say to men or think about them don't mean the same things as they would when they happen to women in many contexts.

an imaginary situation overanalyzed as if it were real as a rhetorical device: when i jokingly say to a man "nice ass" i am referring not only to his possibly luscious behind, but also to the fact that men comment on women's behinds. and i am not taking in the ass as if it is in my right to look hungrily at someone with the expectation that they will honor my intention of sexualizing the moment-- i am drawing attention to the fact that i, as a woman, cannot do that in the same way as a man can do it. i'm using male language ironically. in my mouth, it is nonthreatening, and cannot be (unless it breeches age things..). but it still says something about what i can say and do as a female using traditionally male forms of what is now thought of as degrading language/action. because i have the ability of desexualizing a moment with sexual language, something has changed. basically, if women can sexualize men in a way that they were never sexualized before, then something good has happened-- women can leer among other thing-- even if something bad has not gone away. one thing that has not gone away is power that men have over women, and that nothing has happened since that power has been in place to completely convince women that this power is not essential and/or warranted and/or innate.

*i don't know exactly what i mean by this... in most ways gender plays a part in everything said or understood... and in other ways, only in most things... *shrug*

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